Talk:Codex - Orks Angry Greenskin Edition

Discussions

Mob Rule

• Mob rule got a fair bit of a nerf with the latest codex, that is what I have Come to after talking to the orks players in the group. The problem is that orks are supposed to Love fighting even if orks around them die. The old mob rule showed this better than the new one. I would suggest making the 'Born to fight' result come up more than just one chance in 6, at last 2/6 or maybe 3/6, since orks are more likely to be scared off when they are not fighting.

• Would that not be a nerf? All the ranged units wold have a 3/6 chance of running instead of a 1/6 whenever they fail a morale test, if they are more than 10 models and have a character of course, as a non-Ork player I imagine this is mandatory at least when we are talking about shoota boys, which as far as I understand where stronger than slugga boys. http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?376781-Ork-Slugga Boyz-or-Shoota Boyz The general theme of people saying go for melee is "it´s fun". Now upgrading to shoota boys is 20% extra points rather than 17% extra, but I don´t know if that makes a difference. What I´m saying is I don´t want to nerf Orks where I don´t perceive they need a nerf.

• I don't want this to be a nerf either. Also on the shoota or slugga boy, the angry codex should make internal balanced for this right? One of the goals is to make all units viable and good against some things and bad against others. And If you are playing orks chances are that you wanted in for the close combat, and as Said melee is fun with orks, so it is understandable for people to want to play melee orks. Now If the Born to fight option was 2/6 then orks fighting in melee would have a 1/3 chance to pass test If they are in combat, which really is where nearly all orks belong.

• I don´t think Shoota Boys should be running away all the time is what I´m saying, they are not Astra Militarum or Tau, I just don´t see how big an impact D6 S 4 hits can have on a mob of Orks, on the other hand a unit of 20 Shoota Boys with a Boss will have a twice or thrice as high a chance of turning tail as they do in the official codex. I am aware that Orks love to fight, but doesn´t it say a lot about them that they are likely to stay in line after getting a beating by their Boss or having a little rumble if there are 10 or more Orks? Which of the two other results would you have removed in favour of the Orks Love to Fight result?

• I would have the additional result of Born to fight replace one of the squabble results. Although thinking it over it doesn't feel like the rule is very balanced either way. Perhaps it would actually be a better Idea to expand on the rule all together, perhaps making it a 2d6 result to have a bit more leeway to work with. Perhaps one table to roll one when in combat and one to roll on out of combat? To better represents how Orks act?

• I don´t´get what you mean by better representing how Orks act. How about asking what your Ork player wants? I´m mostly doing geusswork here. I don´t really know how the current rule feels, but it looks fairly fun to me. Slightly favouring melee, but still allowing for ranged armies. I have no idea about how punishing it is to go through a game taking D6 S 4 hits every time you fail an LD 7 leadership test. Is it 5 Orks or 30 Orks you lose in a game? Quite frankly I don´t have the option to play enough games to test Orks. I mainly just "fixed", if you can call it that, the most glaring problems, like the Mek Gunz and apparent weakness of the army´s most defining unit the Ork Slugga Boyz.

• I haven't talked to him in a little while but I Will be able to this weekend. I can relay what he told me last time though. The problems he mostly faced that when he needed to take this till with Any unit it would most likely be at a point where he didn't have enough models to make use of squabble. For example in all the special units where 15 was Max most of the time that result wouldnt do anything. And in combat his nob was often taken out early and as such that result was not useful either. So the only result he has really Ever been glad to see on Mob rule is 1. I Will be playing more Games with him soon and I can give more information from his perspective. Actually writing this made me think, maybe mobile would be better If the squabble result could happen even if there were less than 10 orks.. Ill ask him as well to see what he thinks.

Report

• After talking to the most orky ork player in My group, they had the following to say. Mob rule Hardly gets use. Deff dreads never make it into combat, deff dreads and dreads in general should really have the 'ere we go rule because it just makes sense and would maybe give them that needed buff. One thing he Suggested was melee focused dreads could have movement 9". But something he Complained about the most was flash gits. For several reasons. Number one, lootas out do flash gits in most aspects, having longer range and Much higher strength and often the same or higher number of shots, and flash gits only half of the time having better ap. Flash gits also cost more than lootas, so it makes it even more obvious that they aren't worth it. Also, they have no close combat weapons, he thinks at the minimum they should have a slugga and a choppa at hand, as they are orks, ork pirates even. Because as it is in close combat they are useless, and their weapons are mid range meaning not unlikely risk or charge. Also the leader of the flash gits should be able to at least take some special weapon, like a big choppa. What he was very disappointed with was the fact that flash gits used to be customizible, being freebootas and having been through a lot. Like they had in 3rd and 4th edition. They should be a fun customizible unit. he also Complained that ramshackle now is next to useless. Same with cybork armour, before it had a purpose being a 5+ inv, now its down to 6+ fnp. He had Complained about some more things, but these were the most prominent. He is also one of the most dedicated ork players I have met, when I talked to him he got into making a big orky speech about how orks should be able to krump their Enemies in many different ways. It was kinda inspiring, and I don't even play orks.

• Flash Gits are 18, Lootas are 19 pts/model. I´ll read some of the old fluff for ideas on what kind of stuff Flash Gits could have as options. Cybork body is only 5 pts, which is fair. I don´t really understand how it makes sense that cyborg implants grants an invul? On the other hand it makes sense you can´t feel pain in the limbs which have been replaced with mechanical contraptions.

• According to him, cybork body now is basically useless, he wants ork characters to have some kind of option for an inv save, even If it is just 5+. Perhaps an upgrade like: "sense of invounerability" where the ork believes so Much that he cant be hurt that sometimes he isnt.

• The following would be added to the Gifts of Gork and Mork:

Chosen of Gork (or possibly Mork) - 15 pts

A model equipped with Chosen of Gork (or possibly Mork) has a 5+ Invulnerable save.

Cybork body is definitely not useless, it is very much worth the 5 pts, especially if the Ork is on a bike or is wearing 2+ Sv armour. It just doesn´t have a huge impact, which I think is fine, it´s just a replacement arm/leg... or maybe a couple of replacements. Just as note I don´t think Orks should be able to squabble while less than 10, a huge proportion of them would die from it, seems a little too much. Also what is he doing losing close combats with Orks? WTH is he fighting?

• I think he would be ok with that way of doing it. As to what his orks have been losing combat to: space marines, mark of khorn chaos cultists, wythes and hormagaunts. Not always, but happens from what I have seen anyway.

Heavy Support

Deff Dread

• I don't Know too much about the current ork codex, but something I have mentioned in many Games with an ork player in the group is that deff dreads never manage to get into close combat. Which is sad because he really liked their rules and their models, and he has made his own custom dreads which look splendid. So it makes me sad seeing his deff dreads never getting to do anything of note. Though... I really don't Know how to fix that. Move through cover is a good start, but I am not sure it would be enough.

• Move Throught Cover isn´t even a buff, it´s more of a fluff or sanity kind of thing. The only thing mechs have over tanks is their ability to move in ruins and jungles. Beyond that mechs expend a ton of energy on locomotion compared to what tracked vehicles expend. So I thought no mech should be designed as something that can only move on open ground, because it would just be easier and cheaper to field a tank in such circumstances. I don´t think it´s too vulnerable, it´s basically a dreadnought, with Initiative 1, which has switched out it´s multi-melta for two rocket launchers at -20 pts. I suppose I should consider whether all Dreadnoughts are overpriced.

• I added Scout which should reduce the time it takes for melee walkers to get into combat. - Pirate

Armoury

Warboss Weapon Effeciency

• I think it's sad that a lot of HQ models can't propably use the smaller standard weapons for anything. They are cheaper, I get that, but, for example, using a Chainsword does not give the model anything special, and taking any other weapon makes the model more effective at pretty much anything. To compensate for this, the Captain has Bolt Mastery, which lets it shoot more shots, so, for the Warboss, I'd love for something similar, like "Overclocked Shoota" or something.

Better yet, what about making some sort of Army-list specific "Mastery" USR, that simply makes the main HQs of each list get additional effects when using the weaker, standard weapons, just like Bolt Mastery. For example, Astartes Mastery could make the Captain shoot 2 more shoots with Bolter weapons and two more attacks with Combat Blades and Chainswords. - Dane.

• I think you misunderstand the purpose of the Master of Ballistics special rule. In a battle you would imagine everyone fires hundreds of shots before the enemy get´s to engage you in close combat. A Marine might hit with 10 of those shots, a Veteran with 15 but a Captain might hit with something like 50. So he goes way above and beyond what might seem normal to hit with. Hitting with only a few more shots is just supremely underwhelming when he he makes more than twice their number of hits in CC. A Warboss on the other hand isn´t really expected to hit a lot, it´s still just a big dumb (and physically strong) ork flailing his gun around and shooting in the enemy´s general direction. The reason why it only applies to bolt weapons is because I thought 4-5 plasma shots would be a little too much. But I still think buying him something like a plasma gun or a meltagun can be worthwhile.

Again the point wasn´t really to make Captains keep their basic weapon, the point was to make Captains more awe inspiring. I don´t really see how it´s reasonable for a character to keep a basic chainsword if he intends to head into battle against armoured enemies. The basic equipment should only be used when you can´t afford any better or when you intend to keep your character away from the front line. Characters are already better than scrubs with basic melee weapons, that´s what the attack characteristic is for. Melee weapons have two multiplies, ranged weapons only have 1. Angry Pirate (talk) 14:40, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

• Okay, so that's the case - The way I see it, it's not to make a HQ effective then, but to let the model be more special with a regular weapon; that's kinda neat.

However, if that's something that's supposed to be unique for the Space Marines, it's extremely Marine-centric, and that's simply not fair for the rest of our factions, who also have very awe-inspiring, creepy, frightening leaders. A Warboss might just be a big hunk of flesh to you, but to me, an Ork player, he's the focal point of my entire army, and is very much an awe-inspiring model.

I get why the Master of Ballistics rule is there, but unless the rest of the codices get something sort of similar, I call Marine favoritism - The very thing the Angry Initiative set out to combat and put right. TheWiseDane (talk) 14:53, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

• I added minor upgrades for Ork ranged weapons to represent them paying their mek to get a louder, shootier or killier weapon. Does this satisfy the requirement for Ork characters being a little more noteworthy at range? - Pirate

Ork Warlord Traits

• I think most of these is sorta okay, but they could live with a little buff here and there. Most notably:

3: Like a Thundabolt: +1", really? More like "Crusader and always runs 6" for all models in unit".

4: Brutal but Kunnin': Gives a single melee re-roll per Combat Phase; very weak. Fear and Rampage perhaps?

5: Kunnin' but Brutal: Let's re-roll a single saving roll per phase, which means re-rollable 2+ or nothing at all - that 'Eavy Armor ain't gonna help ya. You could use the Skarboy rule here, +1 Ld and is hit on a 5+ instead of 4+ when equally matched with WS.

6: Might Makes Right: Cool idea, but a single extra point of S does no difference for a Warboss. 1+ T could do the trick instead.

• Agreed.

Do you have the updated codex? Because it says "The Warlord, and all friendly units with the Orks Faction within 12" of him, can reroll all the dice when determining Run moves or charge range." in my dex, which IMO seems like a good trait.

The Warlord has the Rampage and Scout special rules.

The Warlord receives +1 to his Leadership and Initiative values and has the Rage special rule. So both have a kunning and a brutal side? The original Kunnin´ but brutal seems somewhat broken in that it´s super powerful with that one setup, but otherwise it´s complete shit.

The Warlord receives +1 to the Strength characteristic on his profile and has the Zealot special rule.? I agree that +1 S is useless most of the time. Angry Pirate (talk) 14:57, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

• I'm going to remove the warlord traits table, I don´t feel like it adds anything. - Pirate

Powers of the Waaagh!

• These things need a buff, so Imma just go through these.

- Frazzle - Primaris.
- Warp Charges: 1.
- Witchfire.
- 18" 
- S6, AP3, Assault 2d6.
 
- 'Eadbang - 1
- Warp Charges: 1.
- Focused Witchfire.
- 18"
- Target Character must take a 1d6 Toughness tests and loses a wound for each test lost. If the character dies by this power, place a Large Blast over the model. All models, friendly and enemy, below the blast takes a S6 AP4 hit.

- Warpath- 2
- Warp Charges: 2.
- Blessing.
- 24"
- The target unit gets +1 A and the Hatred (Everything) USR until your next Psychic Phase.

- Da Big Jump - 3
- Warp Charges: 1.
- Blessing.
- Psyker Unit.
- Remove the unit from the table and Deep Strike them on. The unit only scatters 1d6, and if the unit Misscatters, it is always Delayed. 
 
- Killbolt - 4
- Warp Charges: 2.
- Witchfire.
- 12 + 2d6"
- S D, AP 2, Assault 1, Beam: Place a two-milimeter broad line from the base of the Weirdboy. All models, friendly and enemy, takes a S D AP 2 hit.

- Power Vomit - 5
- Warp Charges: 1.
- Witchfire.
- 12"
- S 7, AP 2, Template, Torrent.

- Da Fist O' Gork (or Mork) - 6
- Warp Charges: 3.
- Witchfire.
- 30"
- S 2d6, AP 2, Heavy 1d3, Barrage, Large Blast. While this power is a Barrage weapon, you can place the Blasts wherever you want within 3 of each other. For every Strength roll of 10 or more, you may place an additional Large Blast like the first Blasts.

• What do you think? TheWiseDane (talk) 10:02, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

• I revamped them after forgetting these suggestions, let me know if the current versions are fine. - Pirate

Units

HQ

Big Boss (previously Warboss)

Crushing Blows: Choppas count as AP 5, Big Choppas count as AP 3 and Power Klaws count as AP 1 for this model.

• I don't really see the need for this, power klaws and big choppas already have downsides and upsides. While power klaws might be the go-to choice, I think there are situations where other options are better.

Troops

Skarboy Upgrade

• Boy/Kommando/Burna/Tankbusta/Stormboy/Loota Mob upgrade:

- 3 pts/model

+1 Ld and I. When fighting against a unit with WS 4 or less, the unit is hit on a 5+ instead of 4+.

Restrictions: Can never have more Skarboy Mobs than Boy Mobs. A Skarboy Mob may not have a Nob Upgrade (Skarboyz don't let themselves be bullied around). - Dane.

• What is the purpose of this upgrade and what is the fluff?

Lord of War

Warboss

• If the Chaos guys can get a Warmonger, we can get a Warlord!

Dunno bout price

	WS	BS	S	T	W	I	A	Ld	Sv	Unit Type	Composition
Ork Warlord	8	2	6	6	4	4	5	10	4+	Monstrous Creature (C)	1 Ork Warlord

Special Rules:

• Crushing Blows.
• 'Ere We Go!
• Eternal Warrior.
• Fearless.
• Furious Charge.
• Mob Rule.
• Da Boss Is Watchin': Friendly models within 12" gain Stubborn.
• Independent Character.
• WAAAGH!

Gear:

• Boss-Banner.
  • Counts as a Bosspole and WAAAGH-Banner, and gives 1+ to Combat Results.
• Choppa.
• Slugga.
• Stikkbombs.

Options:

• May replace Choppa and/or Slugga for:
  • Big Choppa: 15 pt.
  • Power Klaw: 20 pt.
• May replace Slugga for:
  • Choppa: - pt.
  • Twinlinked Big Shoota: 3 pt.
  • Twinlinked Kombi-shoota: 10 pt.
  • Twinlinked Deffgun: 15 pt.
  • Twinlinked Skorcha: 35 pt.
  • Twinlinked Rokkit Blasta: 20 pt.

	Range	S	AP
Rokkit Blasta	18	8	3	Assault 1d3

• May take one of:
  • Mega-armour w/ Twinlinked Big Shoota: 60 pt.
    • May replace TL Big Shoota with TL Kombi-shoota for 10 pt.
  • Warbike w/ Twinlinked Supashoota: 45 pt.
• May take upgrades from the Ork Know-Wotz list.

- TheWiseDane (talk) 18:52, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

• I was sure I had already made the rules for a LoW Ork, although it was just +1 W and some minor things. It should probably have some kind of Waaagh! special rule, possibly just the regular special rule.

LD 10 and Fearless seems reasonable for a character of that magnitude.

He should be 90-160 pts. Try him at 120 and I´ll implement him. Angry Pirate (talk) 19:11, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

Ghazzkull

• New profile:

Da Prophet o' Da WAAAAGH.

	WS	BS	S	T	W	I	A	Ld	Sv	Unit Type	Composition
Ghazzkull Mag Uruk Thraka	9	2	6	6	4	6	5	10	2+/5++	Monstrous Creature (C)	1 Ghazzkull Mag Uruk Thraka.

Special Rules:

• Crushing Blows.
• 'Ere We Go!
• Eternal Warrior.
• Fearless.
• Furious Charge.
• Mob Rule.
• Da Boss Is Watchin': Friendly models within 12" gain Stubborn.
• Independent Character.
• WAAAGH!
• Warlord: Ghazzkull counts as a Warlord.
• Green Genius.
  • Ghazzkull may take up to three Warlord Traits. If he takes three, he may never re-roll his traits. If he takes two, he may re-roll as normal. If he chooses one, he may re-roll four times.
• Da Chosen Un'.
  • During a WAAAGH, Ghazzkull may re-roll any saves or FNP rolls, Klaw o' Da Last WAAAGH loses Colossal and Ghazzy gains Hatred (Everything!). All choices from the Ork faction, regardless of owner, gain Fearless and Shred on ranged weapons and in melee.

Gear:

• Adamantium Skull.
  • Counts as Bioniks and Gitfinda.
• Ghazzy's Kustom War Rig.
  • Ghazzy's Kustom War Rig is a suit of Mega-Armor with 5++ and Relentless.
• Klaw o' Da Last WAAAGH.

	Range	S	AP	Special Rules
Klaw o' Da Last WAAAGH	User	D	1	Concussive, Destroyer, Colossal

• Twin-linked Big Shoota.
• Stikkbombs.
• Boss-Banner.
  • Counts as a Bosspole and WAAAGH-Banner, and gives 1+ to Combat Results.

• I think his rules are overkill, it´d be sweet if there was a larger model that could duely represent those rules, but that little fella on that little Terminator base just can´t. Size equals power, especially in Ork society and when the model isn´t larger than it is I don´t think he deserves more than what he has. I think the LOWs should just be +1 W. The reason Chaos got one was because SM already had it. It´s just a copy of the CM rules, but I don´t think there is any Ork model worthy of S/T 6 and a S D weapon. Angry Pirate (talk) 18:29, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

New special character "The Arch-Arsonist"

	WS	BS	S	T	W	I	A	Ld	Sv	Unit Type	Composition
The Arch-Arsonist	8	2	6	6	4	4	5	10	4+	Monstrous Creature (C)	1 Ork Warlord

Special Rules:

• Crushing Blows.
• 'Ere We Go!
• Eternal Warrior.
• Fearless.
• Furious Charge.
• Mob Rule.
• Da Boss Is Watchin': Friendly models within 12" gain Stubborn.
• Independent Character.
• WAAAGH!
• Warlord: The Arch-Arsonist counts as a Warlord.
• Charred Skin: This model gain FNP (4++) against any Template, Flamer, Melta or Las weapon.
• Master of the Arsonists: In an army where the Arch-Arsonist is the Warlord, all regular models who could buy a Rokkit Launcher may alternatively buy a Burna for 10 pt. All vehicles with access to Rokkit Launchers may instead buy Skorchas for 20 pt.

Gear:

• Boss-Banner.
• Big Choppa.
• Supa-Incinerator.
  • May use one profile when shooting:

	Range	S	AP	Special Rules
Small Spigot	Template	6	3	Assault 1
Medium Spigot	12"	5	4	Assault 1, Template, Torrent.
Large Spigot	18"	4	6	Assault 2, Template, Torrent.

• Skorcha-bombs.
  • Counts as Defensive and Offensive grenades. In addition, the Skorcha-bombs can be used in the Shooting Phase:

	Range	S	AP	Special Rules
Skorcha-bombs	8"	5	4	Blast.

- Dane