Talk:A Song of Ice and Fire

The expand button for House Stark is in the square directly below it, someone might want to take a look at that. Biggus Berrus (talk) 18:27, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

Merging Minor Houses to their Bannerlords

I'm stoned out of my mind so the idea of including the minor lords under their respective Bannerlords sounds like something I wanna do, because a) if you're reading the books for the first time, or even watching the show, it's easier to remember who's sworn to whom, and the minor lords are helpful suppprting characters and b) the expand button makes page length easy to manage so long as it ends up looking organized. But im also only doing this because The Mormonts are fucking badass and everyone needs to know about their acts of steel balls. But ill take a look at the current page first -mkdm

On the 8th Season

There seems to be a lot of defending going on in the plot summary regarding the last season, and I can't help but feel there's a lot of problems with it.

Starting off: "Long story short, the Army of the Dead is destroyed in an epic battle, where the ancient and super-powerful BBEG gets killed by some slight-of-hand." There's a lot wrong here, mainly in that the battle wasn't epic, it was just spectacle with laughably bad tactics (hide the soldiers behind the artillery but in front of the walls and ditch) forgetting how their own creatures worked (Wights light up like a match when exposed to fire so they couldn't have made a bridge across the stakes) ignoring Arya's teleportation, or the really dumb justification for why the Night King didn't burn, or the bizarre tonal shift partway through where it turns into a horror show, or how Bran ended up being useless, or how they hid all the people who couldn't fight in a crypt while fighting necromancers, or how undead who can punch through stone are stopped by wooden doors (and a dragon who blew up a wall can't do anything about a small boulder or another wall). There are people who've made plenty of videos on this and why the battle itself is a trainwreck that culminates in Arya teleporting directly behind the villain (and several feet in the air) to kill the villain, because all of the important characters are invincible in this episode and also right where they need to be. This little blurb also ignores how this point trivializes and makes a mockery of what the entire series had been about up to this episode.

Next up: "Meanwhile Daenerys has spent the last two seasons being stripped of her plot armor; she's lost most of her supporters - including one of her dragons - and has been forced to confront the fact that nobody in Westeros wants her around." Yeah that's a load of horseshit. You know who does want her around? Fucking everybody who isn't Sansa or Cersei. Why doesn't Sansa like her? Because she's stupid and this last season decided it should remove any sort of intelligence and subtlety she used to have in favour of her talking back to a woman she knows can very easily kill her, and likely would if she didn't fall in line. The show tries to justify this by saying that the Northerners remember the last time a Targaryean went up north, but the show itself forgot that the last time that happened they surrendered peacefully and nothing happened. In short, Sansa has literally no reason whatsoever to dislike Daenerys and her desire for a free North is proven to be a stupid one by the fact that they needed outside help to survive the dead, as if a united nation is stronger than a broken one (who'd have thought, definitely not Sansa). The only other person who doesn't want Daenerys around is Cersei because they're currently at war.

So next is this funny little bit: "The kicker is she's fallen in love with Jon Snow, but he learns he's actually her nephew - and the fruit of a legitimate marriage between her elder brother Rhaegar Targaryean and Lyanna Stark that was handled in secret." So not only did whoever wrote this ignore the fact that rulers can abdicate which Jon was doing (a trait they shared with the showrunners), and which also happened with a former ruler that Jon met, but they also ignored why they didn't just set Daenerys and Jon up as a couple to wed anyway, since getting married and fucking are two different things that don't have to coincide. The reason this didn't happen is because the showrunners didn't want this to happen, and the reason everyone starts backing Jon over Daenerys once learning he's a Targaryean is because the writers wanted it to happen. There's seriously no reason they'd want to do this if their characters were consistent, and not only are these the writers who couldn't remember Gendry's surname, but they're also the same writers who forgot that by making Gendry a lord, he technically has as much a claim to the throne as Daenerys or Jon. You could even argue that Gendry has a greater claim to the throne than either of the other two. Whoever wrote the bit about Varys backing Jon also fucked up by accidentally writing Jon's name instead of Varys, which makes it seem like Jon was the one who was responsible for Varys being burned alive. All of that's pretty dumb though considering how Varys wouldn't do anything that obvious since it goes entirely against one of his main drives: self preservation. This is aside from the fact that he tried poisoning her out of nowhere and for no real reason (since he has no clue if Jon would be a good ruler and he'd previously decided that Daenerys would be), if we're going by his old character that is.

Next: "When she forces the survivors of the final battle to march on King's Landing, another of her dragons ends up dead and her only remaining friend captured and executed by Cersei." No note at all about the impossible shots that killed the Dragon? How the ship that fired the shots appears to have been behind rocks when it fired them? No notes on how they could've gone by the road so as to avoid a sea ambush, or how the ships weren't spotted? No mention of how the ballistas are more powerful than fucking cannons, or how it would be not only impossible for them to capture Missandei, but that they had no reason to believe she was anyone of import to either capture or execute? No mention of how there's no explanation for how Euron knew she was coming, and by all rights should have no way of knowing when, how and where she'd arrive when she did and so could not have possibly planned this ambush in the first place, especially when Daenerys can clearly teleport herself and her entire army since time and distance are no longer factors for her? Lastly, you're not fucking marching if you're sailing. Whoever wrote this clearly just copy-pasted it from a plot synopsis and also left out Daenerys' coffee, one of the most egregious gaffs on modern TV.

Now this bit is either a lie, or written by somebody who didn't watch the show: "So she attacks King's Landing... and then, when her followers maneuver around her to get the city to surrender rather than die to the last, she snaps and burns most of the city to ashes." Her followers didn't maneuver around her, Tyrion asked her to accept the city's surrender when the bells rang, and the writers forgot that the bells ringing doesn't mean the city is surrendering. Real quick we're also skipping over how winter is unexpectedly gone and how King's landing went from a forested area to a desert for no reason, as well as the part where Daenerys and all her advisors and dragon stood within lethal range of Cersei's artillery and Cersei did nothing whatsoever. We're also ignoring how Daenerys completely destroyed the Iron Fleet and how they didn't see her coming, possibly because the sky couldn't decide if it was overcast or not and kept switching between mostly clear and overcast whenever it wanted. We're also ignoring how the Golden Company went down in the most pathetic fashion and how the surrender of the city was near-instant. We're also ignoring how Daenerys has no reason to turn on the common folk at all and for her to do so is such a massive shift in character that it became a joke. She had her morality switch flipped to evil and the writers couldn't come up with good justification as to why. We're also missing any discussion of what happened with the Hound or why it was stupid (choosing to regress his character for fanservice) or what happened with Arya (having her follow the Hound just to be a point of view character for the audience, that's directly according to the writers) or how Arya suddenly became invincible again, or what that stupid scene with the horse at the end was supposed to mean, or how Arya gave up on revenge even though she was way more dedicated at getting her revenge than the Hound ever was.

Now I have to call bullshit on this: "She then decides to continue ramming her head against the proverbial wall and embraces her personal narrative of herself as a divinely chosen hero-queen meant to "free" the world by conquering everybody-" What narrative? Before the last episode none of this was in the show at all, it's literally a speech that shows up right before her death scene to make her into fantasy Hitler. It has nothing to do with the series or anything to do with her former character. This is only made more laughable by her sudden wardrobe change in midair because she went full evil, and I guess she packed her evil clothes on her dragon for such an occasion. We're also forgetting the part where Tyrion is arrested because "If this is liberation, he doesn't believe in liberation theology." That's a direct quote from the script of the final episode, and yes, the writers think theology and ideology are the same thing.

The next little bits are pretty okay, until we get to this part: "This leaves everybody stuck trying to figure out what to do, but ultimately they decide to replace a dynastic monarchy with an elective one, and make Bran the new king because, hey, he's the 3-Eyed Raven and has the seer powers to see all of space and time, so he's the least worst option they have." First of all, we're ignoring how there's no evidence Jon committed the murder. He could say "She flew away." and there'd be no evidence to disprove him. Hell, he could say "If I killed her then her dragon would kill me." And that would be all the evidence he'd need to back his claim. Second of all we're ignoring how there's several legitimate rulers who could be put on the throne, notably Jon or Gendry but the showrunners forgot about him as well, just like they forgot the line that there must always be a Stark in Winterfell (there can't be a Stark in Winterfell in this scene since they're all here), just like how they forgot to remove fucking water bottles from the set before they started filming. Also Bran is the worst fucking option they could've possibly chosen, not only did Tyrion select him, when he was a fucking prisoner and so his words should've been ignored and he shouldn't play any part in deciding the next king at all, but his reasoning for Bran is that he has "the best story". If the best story is what decides who the best ruler is then fucking everyone on the show is a better ruler than Bran, the guy who cares so little for everyone around them he didn't even bother to give people incredibly important info that would've saved a lot of lives in episode 3. Him as a king would be no better than the mad king, aka Mr. "he didn't want to be king" which the writers forgot since they kept on going about how the king should be somebody who doesn't want to be king, and Bran clearly wanted to be king so badly that not only does he travel all the way down to accept, but he gets rid of Jon Snow by sending him north when there was no need to. Jon also goes beyond the wall with all of the people who hated being beyond the wall and wanted to move south, only now the writers forgot about that part, as well as the giant fucking hole that's still in the wall. We're also ignoring how suddenly Bronn is the Master of Coin despite being the worst possible person for the job and Sam is the Grand Maester despite being nowhere near qualified for the role, and the bit about how Tyrion isn't mentioned in the big book of what happened titled "A Song of Ice and Fire" for absolutely no reason at all since the ice in the title was pathetic and rather easily stamped out, and then the fire fucked right off. The reason Tyrion's absence is important is because it means that now there's no explanation for events like Tywin's death, but the writers forgot about him anyway. We're also ignoring how Arya's going off to explore the west when she could just ask Bran to check to see if there's anything of value there in the first place, or even any land worth mentioning.

Lastly there's not a single note for how Jaime did a complete 180 and had his character completely assassinated, even going as far as to say he didn't care at all for the common people, which aside from screwing Cersei (and arguably above that) was his most defining feature? There's also no note about how he slips inside a secret passage Tyrion would've told Daenerys about so that she could send in a few men to assassinate Cersei and immediately end the war, or how Jaime just walks off a mortal wound, only to die with Cersei by standing in the one spot where rocks fell? Seriously if they were only two feet in another direction they would've lived, and they could've easily stood under the parts of the ceiling that clearly weren't caving in.

TL;DR: What's on the page isn't anything close to doing the last season justice. It's a testament to how two morons can royally fuck up a show beyond any redeeming qualities the cast and crew can put forward. -- Triacom (talk) 08:16, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

You're 100% right my guy, but there's not enough time in the day for me to sit down and try to properly un-fuck OP's block of text.